Virgin Comics keeps coming at readers with heavyweight boxers looking for a chance to fight their way into your weekly reading. Their latest contender is a 1920’s street level tale, steeped in the Depression and Prohibition. Though from different industries, they are lifelong New Yorkers, gifted storytellers and all-around good guys. Filmmaker, screenwriter, and actor, Ed Burns (Groomsmen, The Holiday) paired together with the equally all-around comic wiz, Jimmy Palmiotti (Jonah Hex, Countdown) on the five-issue mini-series, Dock Walloper. It’s the story of how a tight-knit group of friends take on the Irish Mob–a standout read, one worth keeping track of into the New Year. Both were kind enough to share their gift of gab and their enthusiasm for Old New York.

PopCultureShock: Ed, How long were you sitting on the concept before you took it to Virgin Comics?

Ed Burns: I was sitting on the idea of an epic movie about Irish American gangsters set against Prohibition in New York, for probably ten years. Years ago I worked with William J. Kennedy to try and get an adaptation of his novel, Legs off the ground but couldn’t do it. I tried to make a film about the mayor of New York at that time, Jimmy Walker, but couldn’t really find my way into what exactly that story was going to be about. Then maybe five years ago I came up with an idea with one of great characters of that time, Owney Madden who was basically a street brawler who rose the ranks to become the head of the Irish crime family in New York and then became a dandy and didn’t like getting his hands dirty. He was eventually ousted, pushed out by the Italians.

So when did a comic book become a real possibility?

EB: My agent had been speaking to Gotham Chopra of Virgin Comics who had just signed up John Woo and Guy Ritchie and asked me if I had anything that could be a comic book. That’s when I thought back to this time period. After seeing 300, I knew this could work; taking a historical event or time period, exaggerate it, and have fun with it, and then turn it into an epic movie. Knowing that 300 was based on the (Frank) Miller graphic novels, maybe this time period would work too. I pitched Virgin with a very loose outline, which I turned into a screenplay. Over the course of five months, they helped me take a screenplay, to a three-act story and into a five-issue structure, if you will. We just start playing with it, not worrying about the historical inaccuracies, creating our own versions of the real characters that lived back then. Owney Madden was combined with Vincent “Mad Dog” Cole to become Mad-Dog Madden, Jack “Legs” Diamond was a real character became Diamond Jack, and so on.

How did you get paired up with Ed for this project?

Jimmy Palmiotti: Virgin thought they should pair Ed up with a comic book writer and I have experience writing about period pieces. I live in New York, they shot Ed the Monolith books from DC, and was sold on the books he read. We got along great.

So what clinched it for you?

JP: Two reasons. I like genre pieces for one, and stuff that’s not always superhero stuff, and two was to work with Ed. This was not going to be a book where the movie guy sends a paragraph and I write the rest. I was going to sit with Ed, talk it out, discuss it and go back and forth and really work out a story between the two of us.

In collaborating with Jimmy has Dock Walloper maintained the original vision you had for it ten years ago or has it evolved into something it would have never had been had it stayed a screenplay?

EB: Without a doubt, the latter. The idea from ten years ago was the launching off point.

You always wonder with these collaborations really who is contributing and how much.

JP: Yeah, we changed a few things to Ed’s outline and added more characters and made it a real collaboration. I had something to say, and then he’d say, “That’s not a bad idea, how about we do it like this.” I do an outline for every issue based on every conversation and then I send it to Ed and our editor, MacKenzie Cadenhead who add their input. Then I write the script and dialogue, which Ed sees again and edits. I finalize it and send it to the artist, Siju Thomas. If we were on a tennis court, we’d be volleying back and forth.

EB: Virgin and Jimmy starting throwing out the ideas of what kind of hyper-reality or powers we give these characters. In On the Waterfront (1954), there’s a scene there where Eva Marie Saint’s father “Pop” Doyle has this arm that’s longer than the other from swinging a hook on the dock for forty years. So I thought that maybe our lead character, John Smith, could have some type of deformity like this. I figured he was this street brawler, maybe one of his hands is damaged, or is twice as big, or there was an accident on the docks or just some combinations of all of these. They really pushed me to think bigger.

Writing a period piece means really capturing the details like the slang and the street speak, which stand out in this book. Talk a bit about writing dialogue for Dock Walloper.

EB: By surrendering the control of the dialogue, what’s been fun to do is see Jimmy work. The dialogue from that time period has become almost cartoon-ish. The gangster films of the 30’s and 40’s and that gangster speak; you couldn’t use that dialogue in a reality-based film today without coming off goofy. Given that this is a comic book, and the comic nature of that vernacular, you’re allowed to embrace it. Jimmy and I have gone back and said, “Here’s a great expression we can resurrect that hasn’t been in a while. So that’s been a lot of fun.

JP: It’s funny as you explore the dialogue, the history, you realize the words we use today was slang back then; words that were created back then because of prohibition, like “giggle water.” We understand things like “flapper” because of movies where we see the young girls with the short skirts. We know “hooch” is liquor and how do we know that? Probably someone researched it and put it in a movie or someone’s grandfather says, “Give me that hooch!” It’s interesting on so many levels.

Also how interesting vocabulary stays alive through pop culture whether it’s music, movies or comics.

JP: Absolutely. Simple words like “Speakeasy” was created in the 20’s, but we still use it and it means a lot of different things. “Swanky” was a 20’s word and we know exactly what that means. “Tin Pan Alley” you know, [chuckles] people think that’s where bums were but it actually is between 48th street and 52nd street and Broadway and that’s where the music industry is in New York City. Things get changed, and you do a book like this and you get fascinated. I have an insatiable thirst for knowledge and being able to apply it is a real pleasure for me.

Ed, you wear a lot of hats as a screenwriter, a filmmaker and an actor, describe how the process of putting a comic together was for you compared to a film.

EB: Being a guy who’s only made low-budget, character-driven, dialogue-heavy films, to getting the opportunity make a comic book where I don’t have to worry about a budget is pretty cool. Let’s recreate the old Penn Station that was torn down, let’s write a massive chase scene on the 3rd Ave. on the elevated train line, or resurrect the west side docks that span all the way from Battery Park to 59th street. Those are things that as a director or screenwriter, I would have never allowed myself to entertain the thought of because the cost would make it impossible for that film to be made. There’s no cost, and now this is a comic that we’ll eventually make as a film, with CGI, we’re going to be able to bring those NY landmarks back to life.

Jimmy says that you weren’t a big reader of comics, Ed, has Dock Walloper changed that? Are you seeking more comics to read etc.

EB: It’s true, as a kid I read them but by junior high I wasn’t anymore. I love Jonah Hex, which Jimmy writes, and Virgin has given me books that I’ve read. I have to admit, I still don’t read a lot but it’s not because I don’t want to as much as it has to do that I have two kids and no free time. But watching films born from comics has made me interested in reading comics again.

As an outsider to the industry do you see comics as another filmmaking tool or is it a viable form of entertainment?

EB: Definitely a viable form of entertainment. The coolest thing that has come from this entire process is that I’ve made movies, work that I’ve written, I’ve gone into a theater and watched my work. Nothing though has been cooler than when Virgin delivered the first issue of Dock Walloper to my house and it’s been sitting on my kitchen counter for the last three weeks. Everyone who comes over is blown away by it saying, “Holy shit, you did a comic book?! How on earth did that happen?” I don’t know [pauses] maybe it’s a bit more tangible, like being a published author and having that book on your shelf. So without a doubt, I don’t know how many times I’ve read that first issue.

So with the Hollywood writer’s strike currently in full bloom, Ed, does Dock Walloper come at the right time for you creatively?

EB: Yeah, it’s keeping my creative juices flowing. We got a bulk of the writing laid out before the strike happened, Jimmy is doing dialogue but also I am editing some of it and certainly I wouldn’t be able to do that if it was a screenplay.

That level of enthusiasm is great to hear! Jimmy, as a comic creator who has made that crossover into TV/Film/Commercials/Video Games, do you think the focus of comic creators have changed? Are there more projects being conceptualized as multiple media projects? Are we heading into an age where a successful comic is one that crosses over into multiple platforms?

JP: Well, the perception of what makes a successful book defiantly lies in crossing multimedia, but to tell the truth, for me a successful book is one that gets the story across to the people that read it. All that other stuff is awesome, but in the end, without a quality book, you will never have a quality product. I think we creators are thinking in broader scope for sure, but that comes later most of the time. We try to stick to what we have control of now.

If Dock Walloper doesn’t become a film or TV series rather, a long running series of comics, would that satisfy you, or encourage you to seek out more ventures in comics?

EB: Yes and Yes. I’ve already spoken to Virgin about a prequel idea with a character we will introduce in issue #3 and then I have an idea for another New York-based story that’s complete fantasy with one toe in reality.

What is about Virgin that you see that is being done differently than what other publishers?

JP: The obvious thing is that they don’t do superhero comics because let’s face it most of industry’s bread and butter is made off of superheroes. The other thing is that they’re experimenting, doing comics of other cultures, guys like Ed and Guy Ritchie and getting them to not only write the comic but actually getting them to work with comic writers. They’re a company that’s saying it’s never been done; let’s try it like this. “Wouldn’t it be cool if” comes up a lot up there. They’re focusing on what’s quality and hoping afterwards they find an audience. They look good, they feel good and read well. They have a different agenda because they hope to see them as films someday.

With that in mind there’s a very cinematic approach, they like a widescreen look and big panels. I don’t do that very much, so I’m trying to jam as much story as I can. Yet, this has to be one of the easiest things I’ve written because they’re so laid back over there at Virgin.

Speaking of that distinctive look, Siju Thomas’ style really adds a visual punch to the book. What was your reaction upon seeing the first pages Siju turned in?

JP: Actually, I was a little nervous on a number of levels about any artist they were going to choose because the art would have to be able to portray a time and place and the characters were written to be very distinctive. When we got the first half of the book back from Siju, I was very pleased. He really took his animation background and worked it into the storytelling and was able to, through tons of reference, capture the era and not make it look like a flashback as well. I was very pleased with the results, and issue two, I think, is much better than issue one, which is a really cool thing to watch happen, an artist growing so much in so short a period of time.

EB: I scanned a bunch of photographs from that time period; everything from the look of gangsters’ faces to the clothes of that time, the elevated trains to how Penn Station looked back then. Jimmy sent him photographs as well, but Siju was already familiar with the time period because he’s a huge fan of the gangster films of 1930’s and ’40’s with Bogart and Cagney, stuff like Angels with Dirty Faces (1938). So we really lucked into him.

As an inker, are you jealous not being able to ink Siju’s work or are you thankful you have to worry about the art for this project?

JP: I have enough to worry about with the writing end, making sure the language is correct, making sure Ed is happy, then Virgin comics and lastly, myself: the worst critic of all. Suji does it all on this book and I think it would lose something if I were to ink it. These days I really limit the inking part of my job to as few projects as I can.

There’s a really nice balance artwork and story with Dock Walloper.

JP: I’m from the school if you’re dropping three or four bucks on a book you don’t want to read it in two minutes. You want to get absorbed. The second and third issue, it gets a little denser but it’s a fun kind of dense. There’s story, the chase and the action and then more story. I like to keep the reader involved and Ed and I are on the same philosophy in that you’ve got to get to know them (the characters) so that when stuff happens to them you’re involved. If you don’t relate to John or Bootsy in some way by the first issue or finding that camaraderie, then we blew it. So you have to work a little harder. As a filmmaker you can have two people looking at each other with violin music and there you have it a whole story.

I’m sure after writing Countdown anything’s a piece of cake for you.

JP: [Laughing] Writing Countdown… is like being a matador with 30 bulls in the ring. Instead of a wearing a red cape, I’m completely red, and the bulls have rabies. [Laughing] Countdown’s fun but I’m one of 20 guys on it, it’s not like Jonah Hex where it’s just Justin and me. They all different insanities, but this is very relaxing because we’re building a world from the ground up.

Has Countdown made you a better writer, Jimmy?

JP: What Countdown taught me was when you have a giant book, you check your ego at the door and you try to write the best you can. I don’t know if it made me a better writer. It’s like someone handing you a football. Here’s what happened, now you go run with it for 20 yards before handing it off to another writer. Dock Walloper makes me a better writer because I had to research an era and work with new people. Not to put down Countdown, it’s an event comic. It’s a whole different animal. I have a background in advertising and been writing for the Painkiller Jane television show so I’m used to a lot of writers in one room yelling.

Have you become a history buff writing both Jonah Hex and Dock Walloper?

JP: I have willingly become a history buff. I was the guy who ordered those Time Life Western books. I’m fascinated by the past because the more you dig deep, the more find out that insane things went on. I keep up on the news everyday; the only way to write is to know what’s going on. The fun of it is finding a nugget that you would never have thought of–the little things– then working it into a story. I’m fascinated with World War II because we have vets talking about their experiences. [Pauses] I wish our president read books because he’d be doing different things wouldn’t he? He doesn’t know the words, “I was wrong and what can we do now to fix it.” There’s a guy who ignored history and he’ll reinvent it… or he’ll be a revisionist.

I come away with this story describing it like a cross between Cinderella Man and Gangs of New York epic story, but if you pan back, it really develops into more of a buddy tale.

JP: I’m hoping the buddy tale is always there. That’s the tightest bond in the book –the two friends. By the way I love Gangs of New York, great movie, but it’s less that and more The Untouchables in a weird way. It’s definitely a buddy book in a 1920’s era. Ed wanted to make it bigger than life and as surreal as 300 was. Time Square is always lit, gangsters are running around and the trains are above ground. The fuel of the time was that there were so many mixed races and there was prejudice abound! It’s not like today where people are politically correct; back then people said what was on their mind and a lot of it was pretty harsh. It was a crueler world because it was a city of immigrants. What they couldn’t get with their brains because they weren’t given opportunities, they got with their fists and that’s what the story is about. Not only do these two guys have to use their brains but their brawn as well and how their lives change because of it.

EB: This slowly evolved but the trio that winds up taking down the Irish Mob is John Smith whose name was given to him by the state because he was put in an orphanage and does not know his ethnicity. His best friend from the orphanage, Bootsy is an African-American. Bootsy’s girlfriend, Ring-a-Ling is a woman from Chinatown. This motley crue, or someone called it a 1920’s mod squad; they end up taking down the Irish mob. (All my movies have to do with some Irish American experience.) I love that this group takes them down. When you really get further into it, they are an interesting little trio.

I really learned a lot about storytelling from Jimmy, and the team at Virgin. It’s a different story than I’ve ever told in the past. I think the fact that I’m not really familiar with comic books or the inherent structure of comics or what might be expected of comic book characters, has been exciting for Virgin because I’m coming in with an outline for a movie that’s going to have a lot of character development and not be so plot heavy.

Any future projects you want to talk about?

JP: That I can talk about? Well Jonah Hex continues with a whole bunch of guest artists–everybody from J.H. Williams to Jordi Bernet, to new artists. We’re almost done with Countdown, Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters kicking bicentennial ass! I’m writing a new four-issue Painkiller Jane vs. The Terminator mini-series and it’s hysterical! Justin and I have a HUGE book that’s going to debut in 2008 but that’s about all I can say about it for now.

EB: I’m going to be doing a cool remake of a Japanese film called Rainy Dog by Miike Takashi about a Hitman in 1902 New York. We just started the casting process but we’ll know by probably the first week of February if this movie is getting made or not. So if we get that made look out for that.

Click here for our Dock Walloper #1 review.

Ed Burns recently directed and wrote feature films Purple Violets (2007) and The Groomsmen (2006). Other notable films he’s directed and written are Ash Wednesday (2002), Sidewalks of New York (2001), She’s the One (1996), and his much-celebrated Brothers McMullen (1995). He has also starred in The Holiday (2006), 15 Minutes (2001), Saving Private Ryan (1998), and will appear in two films, 27 Dresses and One Missed Call in 2008.

Jimmy Palmiotti was once known as Joe Quesada’s inking right hand man. Together they created Ash and Painkiller Jane and relaunched Daredevil under Marvel Comics’ Marvel Knights. Since then Palmiotti has earned his chops as a writer with DC Western afflicted hero, Jonah Hex and turning it into one of the most reader-friendly titles published today. Other notable titles he’s written include Hawkman, Monolith, Daredevil, Heroes for Hire, 21 Down and Twilight Experiment. Recently he’s part of the massive Countdown creative team, bringing Painkiller Jane to for the Sci-Fi Channel, and being involved in Ghost Rider (2007) and Punisher (2004) films.