Florida blacks riled over editorial cartoon
Posted by: Rich Watson on August 22, 2007 at 1:23 pm
13 Responses to "Florida blacks riled over editorial cartoon"
1 | TheDeeMan
You’re wrong, Rich. Using the word “ho” was bad judgement because it does distract from the obvious message of the toon by inciting anger which, with any common sense, should have been AS obvious. Especially after Imus. Or were we missing the “subtext” there too? What would it take to distract you from “the subtext”, Rich? If he’d used the word “nigger” instead of “ho”? Dee
2 | Rich Watson
I have always felt that we let words hold way too much power over us. I’ve written about this before, but I’ll say it again here: the impact of words cannot compare to the actual physical degradation blacks have endured in this country, and in places, continue to endure. If we can overcome all of that, words should be meaningless by comparison. It’s not a lesson I expect will be learned in your lifetime or mine, but I truly believe it’s one that has merit.
Gamble used the language and imagery of rap music to make a point about how it affects the younger generation and black culture in general. Rap music – at least the kind played on hip hop radio, promoted by the corporations – communicates with this language. To use a more neutral word would not only be inaccurate, it would lessen the impact and blunt Gamble’s statement.
Those Florida community leaders should be more concerned over what this cartoon says about rap music and the culture it has spawned than anything else.
3 | TheDeeMan
I think in this instance, Rich–You’re the one missing the “subtext” of their anger. I don’t think Gambles toons impact was lessened or his statement blunted. It was poorly thought out and executed. He could have used any number of words in rap “lingo” that would have better fit the situation he was portraying (“Don’t snitch”) in the toon but chose “ho”. Why? Because it would get a reaction. And it’s getting exactly the reaction it deserves. Or should we also explain away Imus’ comments by saying he was just trying to use cool rap lingo to describe the girls basketball team when he called them “nappy headed ho’s”? Maybe we should look for the deeper subtext of what he was trying to say in that instance too instead of ripping his ass for the dumb shit that came out of his mouth. No Rich, Gamble was wrong, and so are you. Dee
4 | Rich Watson
And again, Dee, you’re missing the bigger point – the fact that commercial rap music uses this kind of language and promotes a certain type of lifestyle is what should be addressed. Gamble did nothing more than hold up a mirror to reflect something that has been going on for years and has influenced an entire generation. You’ve seen the “Stop Snitching” t-shirts; you’ve heard the music – was what Gamble depicted inaccurate? An ugly truth is still a truth.
5 | TheDeeMan
Agan Rich, you miss the point. I do so think that Gamble was trying to hold a mirror up as far as the whole “don’t snitch” thing goes. His mistake was in an awkward attempt to also try and comment on the whole gangsta rap bitches/ho’s thing. And in doing so the initial attempted good is lost in the percieved insult. “Don’t snitch” has nothing to do with “bitches and ho’s”. That is not a one toon, but a two toon issue: A “Don’t snitch” toon and a “Bitches/ho’s” toon. By trying to mix the two the obvious reaction to the toon was “Hey, did this guy just call the little black girl in the cartoon a “ho’? Oh, no he didn’t!” Why? Because he didn’t have to use that word in that situation to make his point abot the “don’t snitch” subject. I would hazard to guess that most black folks would think so as well. And so do I. And I don’t honestly see your “missing the subtext” position going over too well with most black folks in this situation. I just don’t. Nobody is missing the point, Rich. The point is well taken. But lost in misguided execution. Why? Because he didn’t have to used the word “ho” in a “don’t snitch” toon. If he wanted to coment on the whole “ho” situation, like I said, that’s a separate toon for a separted and equally important issue. Dee
6 | Rich Watson
How can you say “Stop snitching” and ho’s are seperate things? They both come from the culture that commercial hip hop has created! Or did you somehow fail to notice the billboard in the background?
7 | TheDeeMan
“Don’t snitch” is about getting brothers to stop helping cops put blacks in jail even if they committed a crime. “Ho’s” is about the lyrically denegration of women (black and otherwise) in rap music and by young men in society (black and otherwise) because of the influence of that denegration in rap music and they ARE NOT the same damned issue. If you don’t think so ask a crime victim if “ho’s” as anything to do with his/her situation of being robbed and ask a fed up young sista if “Don’t snitch” has anything to do with her situation of being disrespected as a woman and they’ll both think you lost your mind. First of, rap music didn’t create black culture it’s just a reflection of what’s going on IN the culture. Or in certain aspects of the culture. Rap music didn’t start “Don’t snitch”. “Don’t snitch” began on the street and because rap music is from the street and, as one rapper put it, “Rap music is like the CNN of what’s going on on the street”, “Don’t snitch” began to show up in the music. And to be just as clear, fellas were calling women bitches and ho’s (and worse) before it ever began to show up in rap music too. Billboard not withstanding. Dee
8 | TheDeeMan
To expand on what I said earlier. Ultimately his mistake was in trying to do too much with one toon. By including “ho’s” in the “don’t snitch” toon the entire good intent of the toon was lost. Like I said, he should have done two toons (one on each subject) so that the message of one wouldn’t be lost with the percieved insult of the other. Because most people don’t live their lives in “the subtext”, Rich. Dee
9 | Geoff Thorne
I’m with Rich on this one. As usual “our leaders” have their heads up their asses on this.
Even if the cartoonist HAD used the word “nigger” instead of “ho,” the cartoon is both on point and sadly indicative of a pervasive and BS notion that runs through our subculture.
How about getting up in arms about R. Kelly? How about not giving drug dealers, murderers and pedophiles Image Awards? How about actually taking the streets back from the gun-toting thugs who seem to operate with more and more freedom every day?
How about actually standing for something beyond telling white people not to say “nigger?”
Pathetic. And very depressing.
They should make a billboard of that ‘toon and put it up in every “ghetto” in America.
My only problem with the toon is the artist shouldn’t have included BET and TIME WARNER as part of the problem. For once mass media companies have NOTHING to do with this. Nothing at all.
10 | TheDeeMan
I’m not talking about saying the man should be fired and what not over a cartoon. But as a black person (I’ll assume you are, I know Rich is) didn’t you read that cartoon and say to yourself–even in passing–that it was gonna offend some folks and maybe they should have rethought the use of the word “ho” not to distract from the message of the toon. Even the editor thought that. Or do you think the problem so overwhelming that you may have to insult in order to cure it. That sometimes you have to make a face when drinking the medicine in order to get well? Becase honestly? Though I wasn’t offended by the toon I knew it was too much and would offend others. And even more honestly? I was more offended at Rich’s reaction to those folks “not seeing the subtext” then I was about anything else. Sorry, Rich. But I was. I know the message is deeper, but I also know that on the surface that it was wrong, and would distract from that deeper meaning just like it’s doing now. Again, most people don’t live their lives looking for the subtext. Maybe I’m wrong. But if I were the editor, I’d have known that that cartoon with the word “ho” in it would have landed us right here. And I dare say that both you and Rich, without over intellectualizing the subtext would have known it too. Dee
11 | Rich Watson
Please read what I’m saying. I never said “Stop snitching” and ho’s are the same issue; I said they both come from the culture hip hop has created. They are smaller, symptomatic issues that come from a bigger one. I also never said rap music created black culture in general; hip hop culture is a specific element that is part of black culture at large, but it never created that culture.
Honestly, I don’t believe we’re gonna change each other’s minds on this, especially if you’re gonna twist my words. I’ve said all I’m gonna say on this. You can think whatever you want of me. I honestly couldn’t care less.
12 | Geoff Thorne
i think the toon is perfectly fine aside from the media reference. i don’t give a damn about the possible hurt feelings.
i don’t think hip hop is responsible. i think it’s a part of the cycle.
13 | TheDeeMan
You don’t have to get upset, Rich. We disagree. You think hip hop created black culture of today. I disagree. Hip hop didn’t create black culture it reflects it. That’s okay. I’m gonna stop posting here if it’s gonna upset you. Dee
