Comments on: 2006: The Year That Was In Diversity In Comics

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:07:08 +0000

Just because this quote of Hudlin’s pisses off white folks sooooo much…

“T’Challa and Ororo! Now black AND f*cking!”

By: brentboy

brentboy — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 21:45:27 +0000

Some people asked "WHAT BLACK LOVE IS''. Basically, It's showing how black men and black women love and interact with each other. In terms of dialogue,tradition. The same can be the same for other races. The way love is shown with white couples is not necessarily the same with other races. It's kinda hard to explain this so i'm going to name movies with romantic love scenes featuring black couples.''LADY SINGS THE BLUES and MAHOGANY with Billy dee willaiams and Diana ross. ''MO BETTER BLUES'' with Denzel Washington and his female co-stars.''DIARY OF A MAD BLACK WOMAN'' Shemar Moore and Kimberly Elise. For that matter how about ''THE COSBY'' show. There were countless episodes where there was Love and Romance between a BILL COSBY and PHYLISHA RASHAD. At that time they were the only Black husband and wife that showed positive images of''BLACK LOVE". For me that's the best way I can explain it. If you don;t see movies featuring AFRICAN AMERICANS IN LOVE SCENES then maybe you won't get it. I could name more movies but I think these sre good examples. Black love can't really be explained when you think about it,but there are displays of it in movies and or television. It's all about what you are aware of and what you notice or pay attention to.

By: brentboy

brentboy — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 19:59:46 +0000

It’s good to see all this juicy debate on BLACK PANTHER and STORM. What amazes me is that a lot of these discussions show that a lot of CAUCASIAN people have very little insight on black people or the culture. Outside of HIP-HOP,GANGSTA RAP and how well we do in the SPORTS WORLD. We as comic readers, movie lovers and t.v. junkies are used to seeing Mostly the way WHITE PEOPLE are traditonanly portrayed: Thats in ROMANCE,INTERACTIONS, THE HERO, THE POLITICIAN,THE VILLIAN, THE DAMSEL IN DISTRESS,THE COWBOY (and indian) ETC,etc,etc,etc. My point to my fellow fanboys,that despite the obvious of other cultures in our country and the world,WHITE IMAGES are still the standard image and the ultimate representation of the RED BLOODED AMERICAN. SO: When REGGIE HUDLIN and DWAYNE MCDUFFIE come in and don’t put out what we’re used to seeing in COMERCIAL MEDIA and ESPECIALLY COMICS there is this obvious opposition from ”WHITE FANBOYS”. I’m sorry it’s true. Example: When the JUSTICE LEAGUE animated series was introduced BRUCE TIMM and other creators got a lot of static for using JOHN STEWART instead of HAL JORDAN or KYLE as GREEN LANTERN. I for one was happy at least one hero was non white. Comics are moving in new directions. I praise DC and MARVEL for trying to reach black,latino,indian and asian kids. To my white fanboys 80% of superheroes are white. That doesn’t stop blacks,latino etc from buying comics. White people are accustomed to seeing there images constantly in your faces. WE: do not have that luxury. So if a comic is different from what your used to why freak out about it. As a BLACK MAN i’ve been reading superheroes that are white forever and i’m not bitchin’.So,why are you?

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:25:52 +0000

Blackcyclops, I’m not interested in your race, or the race of anyone else’s. Are you trying to imply that people of the same race don’t have different opinions, which makes you some kind of radical Negro? Yeesh, I hope not.

By: Tiff

Tiff — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:10:57 +0000

Oh jeez looking back at the comments (Jennifer is Stormfreak, that makes so much sense now!) I think I’m just going to drop BP. I was already hating the book anyway (which I only read for Storm).

Oh and I’m black btw.

By: Tiff

Tiff — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 16:59:10 +0000

Don’t know why it took me so long to read this but wow, I LOVED the stuff about Storm and Black Panther. It touched on why I wasn’t over the moon about the wedding (seriously where did this romance come from?) and why I absolutely hate the way Storm is protrayed in the book. She gets to be a “strong” woman only when it’s good for her husband.

By: Raefe Mahadeo

Raefe Mahadeo — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 12:06:40 +0000

thanks. the one thing that’s turned me off of hudlins writing(and if you think i’m wrong tell me) is that it seems to focus solely on race and thats how a characters worth is defined in his books. if this is the case i think it about as superficial as judging someone on thier wealth or sexuality. I think the idea that gambit couldn’t be there because of the blood of apocalypse storyline is crap because marvel often says not everything is happening at the exact same time when their mega events collide(ex.dissasembeled 1 and planet x). gambit was only excluded because of his race. i think hudlin wanted to write a black version of the superfriends(flawless heroes who always save the day) forgetting or not knowing the show suffered from the characters not being flawed and always winning(as i understand it). From the katrina issue I think he got at least blades character right but i was surprised he didn’t use cloak and dagger, since it was supposed to be a meeting of high profile black heroes and I think cloak qualifies. maybe he thought the drug based origin sent a bad message, simply didn’t like the character or isn’t a fan of interracial couples(this isn’t an attack on hudlins character i just do not know if he feels this way or not). i think hudlin has a fair understanding of the panthers character and treating him as a king who has to consider the political ramiifications of his actions elevates him above the standard batman knockoff image of the character. there are people who think priest screwed the pooch because his series got cancelled but i think taking a charcter a lot of people saw as 2nd or even 3rd rate, giving them their first series and making it last five years is something special. hell you couldn’t do that with any of the x-men and they were the top selling comic for a quarter century. you think rogue or the beast would last five years solo. hell, gambit could only last two and he’s nearly as popular as wolverine. I think priests work on panther is comparable to john byrne’s she-hulk in the sense that both creators established characters that were relativley seen as playing second fiddle to the avengers “big three” and established them as endearing solo characters.

By: blackcyclops

blackcyclops — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 22:51:42 +0000

I like where you coming from Raefe Mahadeo…

By: Raefe Mahadeo

Raefe Mahadeo — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:00:00 +0000

p.s. when is boondocks seaason 2 coming. i figure hudlin would probably know with his involvement in the show.

By: Raefe Mahadeo

Raefe Mahadeo — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:57:47 +0000

looking over hudlon katrina comments I feel the fact the city wasn’t littered with the wealthy as well as bush’s lack of a conscience(sociopath) as well as his administrations incompetence and preoccupation with war profitering are the reasons the situation being handled so badly. I’m not saying he isn’t racist, i’m saying a lot of things make him an asshole.

By: Raefe Mahadeo

Raefe Mahadeo — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:43:43 +0000

as a side note about Panther and storms relationship I would like to point out the marriage is not unprecedented; they were married in earth x. Also, wanting to have children dosen’t make a marriage loveless.

By: Raefe Mahadeo

Raefe Mahadeo — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:11:52 +0000

also, i dont think hudlin the worst panther writer. geoff johns Avengers showcased a panther that was untrusting, manipulative, racist and such a prick he made namor look like princess di. he also relagated the character to being a black batman knockoff. The fact is if there was a larger selection of mainstream black comic writers a writer of immeasurable talent would likely be writing panther and getting into the top twenty books. I will compare it to kanye west, who while not a bad rapper, is terribly unoriginal by sampeling other artist music to add to his own constantly. he is the only overhyped rapper in the rap industry currently so people buy into the thought he’s comparable to death row records artists. hudlin is not the best black comic writer just the most mainstream one. I do not feel hudlin was given an artist as talented as bendis or millar which at the very least shows ignorance of an emerging comic writer who needs the talents far more than the fanfav writers. Marvel also admittedly uses creators like hudlin(from outside of comics) to add an air of respectibility to comics to the world at large and draw in new readers. Marvel owes these writers a lot like descent promotion/resources. Hudlin obviously has a fanbase and what i dislike about his work may be seen as his greatest strengths to them. I would also like to point out a lot of great books get overlooked. peter davids captain marvel from the “nothing to lose” storyline to the end of “crazy like a fox” was, in my opinion, niel gaiman’s Sandman quaility work, but was often overlooked in Wizard and on the internet. I would suggest to anyone to give it a read, its quality work. To Mr.Hudlin, whom I know to have a very extensive comic collection, have you read these terrific stories and what is your opinion of them. To give you an idea of my tastes, my favorite shows are Fullmetal Alchemist, Southpark, supernatural, Angel, Farscape, Battlestar galactica(2003-present), jon stewart, boston legal, 24, nip/tuck(my absolute fav), the shield, sopranos seasons 1-5 and rescue me. I’ve also recently become a fan of prisonbreak and alias.
as for comics its battle angel alita, strangers in paradise, powers, supreme power(Max version),all of brian k. vaughans comic work, civil war, chynna clugston majors manga work, astonishing x-men, invisibles(favorite series ever), peter milligans x-force and Neil Gaimans sandman. My favorite band is the distillers and favorite movie is Rules of Attraction. I also recently saw tim burton Corpse Bride and thought it was the most beautiful movie I had ever seen, which I guess sounds twisted. I also think its ironic the x-men are supposed to represent minorities but of a very large cast are mostly white. I’m curious if you could imagine the main X-men’s race as anything other than caucasian, like when psylocke went from british to asian.

By: Raefe Mahadeo

Raefe Mahadeo — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:37:29 +0000

To address the issue of the gay character freedomring’s death I believe the reason he was killed unlike other teen/young adult characters kyle rayner, spiderman or speedball is he was a minority therefore making his death unexpected since they are valued more than the legions of athletic white people with the same haircut(gwen stacy and mj could be twins with 1 having a dye job)and death, unlike, say, two years ago, doesn’t mean jackshit at marvel. He may very well come back within 5 years. Its comparable to alex wilder in runaways(I wont spoil the plot twist for new readers)but I did find it enriched the character and was likely done because minority characters deaths are very unexpected(excluding Goliaths death in civil war, dissappointing the wife beater should have died instead). I think there’s no substance to the new batgirl and is just meant to capitalize on the success of the L Word(love that show), i hope i am proven wrong. dc is just enacting change for the sake of change for money, it has nothing to do with racial understanding/acceptance/reprsentation.i would also like to point out that the personality profile fo freedom ring has become unpopular at marvile:sspeedball an emo bondage sado masochist leaving even me, a copletely white canadian, saying crazy cracker,gravity is dead, kyle rayner was turned into a hal jordan clone almost as lame as said character and spiderman and spiderman often loses personal/physical struggles, is severly depressed and in is often brought to the brink of murder(ultimate spidey cliche, likely why the characters book hit an all time sales low and was cancelled in the late 90s)they are no longer happy gp lucky teens but the opposite taken way to far most of the time. As for black characters in comics they are incredibly underrepresented.blade should be an avenger,cardiac should be dusted off and used and as shown in early exiles issues,I think the late twenties, moses magnum can be a great villian.my opinion of hudlin as a writer is the same as that of bendis and claremont currently:he’s a good idea man andat the long term planning aspect of the book, but veryaverage or poor with dialogue. I think him stating that people were just pissed about storm marrying a black man was just an attempt to discredit his detractors and not consider there viewpoint though this could just reflect a fear of racism towards himself and black protagonists.I feel jenn was insulted first and while some may find her tone harsh even posters claiming to extend an olive branch gave backhanded insults.I would be interested to hear your thoughts on my comments, jenn. I would also like to say the lack of webslang overuse is very refreshing.

By: blackcyclops

blackcyclops — Mon, 29 Jan 2007 23:50:01 +0000

I like how this conversation went…I’m new to this whole blogging thing. I post mostly on UXN and AHH. But I will say that I agree more with James then Jennifer.

Jennifer you seem to be in a constant state of attack, and almost demeaning others in some aspects. While James managed to get a point across, without talking down to anyone and still seeing their points. And before you say anything about me not knowing about “being black”, if the name doesn’t say enough I’d gladly give you my email and send u a pic of me holding a notecard with my name on it. Because I am black and know all too-well the “black experience”.

I did like the article Loren, and I’ve really been working on my own.

By: Laura Hudson

Laura Hudson — Fri, 19 Jan 2007 18:03:16 +0000

I don’t know where Jennifer came up with this whole “mousie” thing, but it’s made me visualize the last 30 comments as though they were being narrated by characters from Mouse Guard.

It’s a lot more entertaining that way.

By: Jon Haehnle

Jon Haehnle — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 20:51:54 +0000

ok for the record, this isn’t technically loren’s blog but a post republished from loren’s blog here on pcs. so the comment moderation — or lack thereof — is not his reponsibility but rather the pcs admins. and on behalf of said site admins, i apologize for being late to the party…

i do agree this thread has gotten way off-topic — so let’s cease with the personal stuff and get things back on topic please.

please note that if we have to start deleting posts or shutting threads down this will consequently force us to make people register just to post comments, which we currently don’t do

thank you,
-jon haehnle, pcs producer/designer

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:51:44 +0000

Loren, I don’t imply a damn thing. If I thought that you, in all your comic blogging glory, could do a damn thing to “take me down” and were actively trying to do so, I would just say so. In an email. In private. Give me an effin’ break.

I don’t care what you think about my participation in this thread, Loren – it’s your thread and your blog and if you don’t like what I have to say, I’m sure there’s a nice little admin panel you can use to fix that, geez. But if you scroll way-the-hell-up, I’m sure you’ll see that I was participating in this thread just like everyone else, until you allowed the cowardly mousie to pull that “Jenn’s been banned from here there and everywhere” shit – something that’s not only public knowledge but I bring up my damn self on a regular basis. Not my fault I had to step in and deliver the boot-to-ass that you never did. Hey, it’s not my blog so I could care less, son. All you had to do was steer the convo back on topic and remind the punk mousie that the topic is your blog, not any legendary flame wars I pulled off back in 2004 or wheneverdahell. You refused to do that. So here we are. Don’t like it? Look within.

By: Loren

Loren — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:52:05 +0000

Jennifer,

In this statement:

People like Mr. Hudlin – and me, to a much lesser extent – can say and do whatever the hell he wants and will STILL be successful, no matter how much people like you try to throw salt in his game.

you imply that what people are trying to do here is take you all down…that whatever people say, you all will STILL be successful. There’s an implication that people don’t want you to be successful. And, in that implication, people want to take you down. That’s where I got that from. If that’s not what you meant, that’s a different story. That’s what I label “paranoia,” not the fact that you disagree with me. It’s your tone, not what you’re saying. Believe me, through these 112 comments, I’ve seen people disagree and bring up REALLY good points…one that I haven’t thought about before and it was great food for thought…people like James and Yaw. They disagree with what I and others have said and I respect that. But, I feel you’ve come here just to hurl names at everybody. That’s the difference I’ve been feeling in your participation in this thread.

Also, I own all 23 issues of Reginald Hudlin’s Black Panther. I admit that I hadn’t read any of it UNTIL Uncanny X-Men Annual #1, but I have bought all the back issues. If you read any of my actual blog or any of my previous comments, you’d realize that and that, if I offended anybody with this article, being the end-all-and-be-all of diversity in comics because I forgot something or offended, that I’m genuinely sorry. But, c’mon, Jennifer…to say that the whole thing was a thin veil JUST to “whine” about Black Panther…you want to talk about low…then, there.

By: Jennifer

Jennifer — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:11:20 +0000

Awww, thank you Mousie! And I hope that one day you’ll grow a pair and learn how to sign your name like the boys and girls with real opinions, as opposed to being a pathetic little co-signer running around the ‘net with threads from comic book message boards – and with the wrong information at that. You got a beef with me, punk mousie, you know where to find me. Everyone here does.

By: Anonymouse

Anonymouse — Tue, 16 Jan 2007 13:20:55 +0000

By the way, I do feel sorry for you Jenn, that’s a disgusting thing to happen to a person. But it’s not as if you have a clean slate yourself. I hope you get the help you need someday, and work through your issues.

Also, with this entire conversation you’ve completely belittled and overlooked the other important events Loren focused on in his article.